Recently hired 4Kids VAs have betrayed the original cast!

I sent Veronica Taylor a few emails recently. I've also posted a message on her Guestbook to inform her that I've emailed her.

Apparently, it worked, because today I just received an email from Veronica! : D

Anyway, I'm sure you guys are wondering what's been going on with Pokemon USA hiring 4Kids VAs. Well, the good news is that Veronica has explained all of this to me. However, the answer doesn't look good, and that's the bad news....

My message from Veronica Taylor:


Lisa-

Of course I remember you!
How could I forget my biggest fan? How are you?

I have been having a trouble with my email, so I"m afraid I haven"t gotten to your emails yet.

I have heard the news about Dan Green, Bella Hudson and Sean Schemmel.

I am sad to say that they have abandoned us by moving to PUSA, they are still allowed to work with us on 4Kids shows because of a loophole, but they have betrayed the original cast by moving to PUSA without us...

I am beginning to think that it is hopeless... with cast mates betraying us to go to PUSA without us, I am afraid that before long it will be too late to get us back...

Thank you so much for supporting us and fighting for us. Even as things get more and more hopeless, you are a good and useful fan. But if this betraying continues, it could becomes hopeless to get us back...

You are such a wonderful fan, thank you so much Lisa for all your support. And please be sure to watch me in Dinosaur King, I have passed on the spirit of Ash into my voice for Max.

Veronica

Topic Pinned ~Brian

So, can someone explain to me what Veronica meant by "the VAs are still allowed to work on 4Kids shows because of a loophole".

I always thought that a loophole could actually help us, especially in our case, since we're trying to get the original cast back.

Or am I wrong about this? Does anyone here know about loopholes? *scratches head*


I still don't understand how/why Pokemon USA hired those 4Kids VAs in the first place. Because if there is such a loophole that allows the 4Kids cast (all VAs) to work on 4Kids shows and still work for Pokemon USA - I believe this could work in our favor somehow and help us get the original cast back.

And also, why would those 4Kids VAs betray the original cast? Don't get me wrong, I believe everything that Veronica has told me. Of course I believe her. It's just that, this doesn't make any sense! Why would they betray the original cast members like that? And once again, why were those particular 4Kids VAs approached by Pokemon USA or given a chance to work on the show, and not the original cast members?

Ahhhh! My brain hurts just thinking about it! >_<

This is definitely a confusing subject. I'm sort of surprised by Veronica's answer. Since there is a loophole, I don't see why she wouldn't jump at the chance to contact PUSA to get Ash back. I guess she feels betrayed because those VAs were contacted and accepted the offer, while she was not contacted.

But here's the main thing: this so-called "loophole" is absolute solid proof that the old VAs could come back to voice their characters. No longer can PUSA say anything about contracts or what not.

What needs to be done is research as to who exactly is contacting these 4Kids VAs in the first place (is it Tom Wayland?) and we need to tell them that they have no excuse to not rehire the original cast.

At the least, I say we shoot for one voice actor at a time. We are MUCH more likely to succeed that way, and it should be pretty obvious. They can't just totally drop the whole new cast from their main roles on the show right now. But slowly but surely they could. So I say we focus on the one voice who has gotten the most complaints and therefore would be easiest for us to get the original voice back - Ash.

I'm almost tempted to contact Sarah and see if she would be willing to give the role back to Veronica, but I don't know what she'd think of that X3

But most importantly, we need to act strong and fact. There is no time to waste. This is the perfect time to start getting the original VAs back.

*nods*

Yeah, I completely agree on everything you said, Rachel!

This "loophole" pretty much proves that Pokemon USA has no excuse to not hire the original cast.


We just need to show both Pokemon USA and DuArt that we mean business. Otherwise, as Veronica put it, it will become hopeless (I have a feeling that when she said that, she meant that we might have to give up on SOVA at some point....but I really, really don't wanna do that, as I have faith that we can succeed!).

Anyway, Rachel, I agree that we should try and get one VA back at a time now. It seems like the best solution to this whole mess.

And you're definitely right about that. It seems like most people (when they complain about the new cast) are complaining about Sarah Natochenny. So we really need Veronica Taylor back now, especially with that really dramatic, D/P 74 episode coming up (ugh, I don't wanna think about what that episode would be like with Sarah!!).


Also, what you've been saying Rachel about contacting Sarah, this has given me an idea. I think if we each contact a bunch of people online and tell them each to send Sarah a message - asking her politely if she would be so kind as to give up her role of Ash to Veronica Taylor - this just might do the trick for us. (heck, someone here could actually create a template message for us, and people could just sign their name at the bottom)

People could comment either by sending Sarah a message on MySpace or by emailing her.


Because one or two people asking Sarah if she would actually give her role up to Veronica just won't cut it. We're gonna need a lot more people to suggest that Sarah does this, in order for this plan to work. (since we would be pretty much beginning for mercy, we don't need anyone bashing/criticizing Sarah's voice acting, as this would ruin any chance we might have of getting Sarah to give her role back to Veronica).

Hm, good idea. What we need to do is make sure we explain the situation very clearly and politely to her. We can't just say, "Don't be Ash anymore." We need to explain how much this means to us, the fans, and even Veronica herself (Lisa, I think you could do a good job writing up Veronica's feelings on the issue). And we need to tell her that we just want what's best for Ash, and hopefully she would too.

We need to explain the benefits to her, such as the pressure will be off, she won't have to deal with complaints anymore, she will be considered a hero to many people for graciously giving the role back to Veronica, etc. And we need to compliment her on her other roles and say that we think she is very talented, just isn't quite suited for Ash. To make her feel better, we can add that since Ash is such a complex character, the only one who is right for Ash is Veronica.

...Man... you know how awesome it'd be for Veronica's return to be DP 74? Dang... that'd be amazing X3

We should also contact PUSA, asking that Sara give up her role as Ash to Veronica and assigning her to a different role that would best suit her.

I'm all for getting rid of Sarah Natochenny, but spamming her with messages asking her to "give up the role" is not the way to do it.
Remember what we have been told even since this whole mess started, the VAs are at the bottom of the ladder, they have no control over who gets hired or not. Contacting PUSA and asking them to hire the original VAs is the way to make changes happen.

Veronica sounds pretty broken up. Wait, how can a so-called "loophole" exist if the contracts never mattered in the first place? The VAs have been telling us from the beginning that the contracts do not mean anything, so do they matter, or don't they?

Trainer Rachel wrote:

Hm, good idea. What we need to do is make sure we explain the situation very clearly and politely to her. We can't just say, "Don't be Ash anymore." We need to explain how much this means to us, the fans, and even Veronica herself (Lisa, I think you could do a good job writing up Veronica's feelings on the issue). And we need to tell her that we just want what's best for Ash, and hopefully she would too.

We need to explain the benefits to her, such as the pressure will be off, she won't have to deal with complaints anymore, she will be considered a hero to many people for graciously giving the role back to Veronica, etc. And we need to compliment her on her other roles and say that we think she is very talented, just isn't quite suited for Ash. To make her feel better, we can add that since Ash is such a complex character, the only one who is right for Ash is Veronica.

...Man... you know how awesome it'd be for Veronica's return to be DP 74? Dang... that'd be amazing X3

Yes! I agree with you once again! XD

You have stated all of that perfectly.


Hmm, let's see, when it comes to voice acting, you seem to be much better with putting your thoughts into words than I am....how about you help write up the letter-template by saying all kinds of positive stuff about Sarah (with the overall message that we, the fans, believe it's in the best interest for Ash's character that Veronica Taylor voices him).

Hey, what about bringing up the dramatic episode D/P 74 to Sarah? I really hope it's not too late and that Pokemon USA hasn't dubbed that episode yet (let's cross our fingers, because there's till hope, as long as they haven't dubbed that episode yet).

And yes, it would be so awesome if Veronica returned right at D/P 74 (or before that episode). I would love Pokemon USA so much for doing that!! LOL. XD


Also, you're right, I could sum up Veronica's feelings on this matter quite well (so I could work on that part)! ^^

metfan5695 wrote:

We should also contact PUSA, asking that Sara give up her role as Ash to Veronica and assigning her to a different role that would best suit her.

Yes, contacting Pokemon USA and DuArt is definitely a good idea about this.

The problem is, we're not sure who to contact at Pokemon USA or even, which people there actually work in the VA department (Lawrence Neves sure doesn't)....


Perhaps we should just contact DuArt instead. Because like Rachel said, I think Tom Wayland might be behind hiring those 4Kids VAs!

If Larry Juris/TAJ was behind the replacement of the original cast (I've believed this for a while, though I don't actually have any evidence), then I think DuArt might be behind hiring Dan Green, Bella Hudson, and Sean Schemmel.

Ok, I'll try to send an e-mail to DuArt.

I think the whole "contracts" thing was a lie which Larry Juris (and TAJ) gave to Pokemon USA.

Because if you remember, in beginning, Pokemon USA kept giving us this ridiculous excuse that they couldn't hire the original cast because of contract issues....


However, everything the original cast has said about the VA switch completely contradicts what Pokemon USA has been saying. And I don't think the original cast would lie to us. Which leads me to believe that either Pokemon USA is lying (to cover up the truth about the VA switch) or they had been lied to by Larry Juris/TAJ.

And just look at this page: http://lovesick-pkmn.net/sova/i_contracts.php

That's more proof in our favor!!


Oh and if you wanna know why I suspect that Larry was behind the VA switch, you should know that two phone calls were made to TAJ by two SOVA members (Mistress Puff and xdeadpan). They each got to speak with Larry Juris (president of TAJ studios). Afterwards, they posted on Bulbagarden and told us about their horrible conversations with Larry.

First phone call: http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showpost.php?p=344191&postcount=2814

Second phone call: http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showpost.php?p=344289&postcount=2825

As you can tell from these two posts, Larry Juris acted very unprofessional over the phone. I mean, with the way he acted towards his feelings about the original cast, and actually yelling to two fans over the phone - I can understand why Pokemon USA stopped using TAJ studios.

Pokemon USA+contracts= new VA's. <WRONG!
Pokemon USA+contracts= red herring.
So, is this pretty much the conclusion about the whole contracts deal?

Trainer Rachel wrote:

Hm, good idea. What we need to do is make sure we explain the situation very clearly and politely to her. We can't just say, "Don't be Ash anymore." We need to explain how much this means to us, the fans, and even Veronica herself (Lisa, I think you could do a good job writing up Veronica's feelings on the issue). And we need to tell her that we just want what's best for Ash, and hopefully she would too.

No matter how politely we say it, it would probably still rub her the wrong way. There's no way to tell some one to quit their job without coming off as real jerks. (Just imagine if someone sent a letter to you or your parents at work saying that we want you to quit your job)

Trainer Rachel wrote:

We need to explain the benefits to her, such as the pressure will be off, she won't have to deal with complaints anymore, she will be considered a hero to many people for graciously giving the role back to Veronica, etc. And we need to compliment her on her other roles and say that we think she is very talented, just isn't quite suited for Ash. To make her feel better, we can add that since Ash is such a complex character, the only one who is right for Ash is Veronica.

How do we know that Sarah is feeling any pressure anymore? Looking at her myspace page, there are no complaints, and it seems with the new director her Ash voice is better than it has ever been before. The complaints from people other than us in SOVA seems to be at an all-time low.

PokemonTrainerLisa wrote:

I think the whole "contracts" thing was a lie which Larry Juris (and TAJ) gave to Pokemon USA.

Because if you remember, in beginning, Pokemon USA kept giving us this ridiculous excuse that they couldn't hire the original cast because of contract issues....


However, everything the original cast has said about the VA switch completely contradicts what Pokemon USA has been saying. And I don't think the original cast would lie to us. Which leads me to believe that either Pokemon USA is lying (to cover up the truth about the VA switch) or they had been lied to by Larry Juris/TAJ.

And just look at this page: http://lovesick-pkmn.net/sova/i_contracts.php


That's more proof in our favor!!

That's just it, if the contracts are 100% bull, then why would there be a loophole?
A lie with a loophole shouldn't matter because it's a lie. Which would make the loophole part of the lie.

Rocket Grunt, the problem would be this. If the whole thing is really a lie, then this means all those VAs who have "betrayed" the original cast are in on this as well (just like Kayzie Rogers and Jimmy Zoppi were before them).

Meaning that, these 4Kids VAs actually knew from the beginning that there was nothing preventing the original cast from returning. However, they don't care about that anymore (or about Veronica and the others being replaced, apparently) and they're probably just going along with this lie to make more money.

Also, Pokemon USA might still believe this thing about the contracts. If Pokemon USA believes this, then DuArt would as well. And if they all believe this lie, well, it would be pretty difficult for anyone to prove them wrong about it. Now wouldn't it?


Anyway, by accepting those roles on Pokemon USA, and how those 4Kids VAs just blew the biggest chance the original cast ever had - this just sickens me how 3 VAs from 4Kids could completely betray the original cast like this....

Seriously, how much more hurt could the original cast go through? It's wrong, I tell you! It's wrong on so many levels!

And really, this whole thing makes me wanna get the original cast back even more!!

metfan5695 wrote:

Pokemon USA+contracts= new VA's. <WRONG!
Pokemon USA+contracts= red herring.
So, is this pretty much the conclusion about the whole contracts deal?

Yeah, I guess this is just the "leftovers" from the contracts thing, which recently expired....

But still, I'm very confused about why Pokemon USA chose to approach and hire those 3 voice actors from 4Kids.


Wouldn't this imply that Pokemon USA was once again in a position where they could hire the original cast, but instead decided against doing that? I swear, if they actually had the chance to approach the original cast this time and Pokemon USA didn't take that opportunity....this is so unfair!!

This is a perfect example of what's wrong with the world today. I bet most of it is all about the money that's involved in going to Pokémon USA. However, abandoning the original cast because of some legal loophole? That is definately betrayal. And for the very simple reason. If Pokémon USA approached these guys and told them they could have their jobs back, if they were loyal they should have stood up and said, "No, not until the fab 4 are given their jobs back as well!" That's my name for Veronica, Rachael, Eric, and Maddie, the Fab 4. So, that's what I have to say about it. It's called the power of greed.

We don't know if PUSA approached them, or if they were the ones to approach PUSA.
The fact that Veronica feels betrayed by them means that it was probably them that went to PUSA. Breaking the line of unity (the hire all of us, or you get none of us thing that Maddie mentioned) that the Veronica and the others were trying to keep.

Brian wrote:

This is a perfect example of what's wrong with the world today. I bet most of it is all about the money that's involved in going to Pokémon USA. However, abandoning the original cast because of some legal loophole? That is definately betrayal. And for the very simple reason. If Pokémon USA approached these guys and told them they could have their jobs back, if they were loyal they should have stood up and said, "No, not until the fab 4 are given their jobs back as well!" That's my name for Veronica, Rachael, Eric, and Maddie, the Fab 4. So, that's what I have to say about it. It's called the power of greed.

: D Brian! You took the words right out of my mouth before I posted them.

Rocket Grunt wrote:

We don't know if PUSA approached them, or if they were the ones to approach PUSA.
The fact that Veronica feels betrayed by them means that it was probably them that went to PUSA. Breaking the line of unity (the hire all of us, or you get none of us thing that Maddie mentioned) that the Veronica and the others were trying to keep.

Maybe....

But personally, I believe Veronica meant that those VAs have betrayed the original cast by actually "accepting" Pokemon USA's offer, rather than declining it.

And of course Veronica would feel betrayed with those 4Kids VAs working on the Pokemon USA dub now (and still doing roles for 4Kids, apparently). Those VAs simply took advantage a strange loophole, and in the process of doing so, they betrayed the original cast as well.


However, the loophole thing really confuses me. I wish someone could explain to us what this actually means. Trainer Rachel and I have generalized what it could mean for SOVA, but I'd still like to hear what it means, from someone who knows a lot about contracts and/or business matters.


By the way, I agree with you, Brian. This might have something to do with Pokemon USA and how they're choosing to spend their money (decreasing the amount of Japanese BGM being kept, in exchange for hiring more VAs).

But anyway, if the real reason those 3 VAs did this was because of money, then that just proves they're filled with greed. X_X *sigh* Imagine how much better things would be if there was no greed in this world....

Or maybe Taylor and the others are being stubborn when an offer is made; didn't they say they'd rather have it back at 4Kids?

I'm all confused as well. This is the strangest thing I've ever heard.

WTF is this "loophole" business?

Maybe you should email back Veronica, Lisa.

ker-plop wrote:

Or maybe Taylor and the others are being stubborn when an offer is made; didn't they say they'd rather have it back at 4Kids?

Um, no....

The original cast has NEVER been approached by Pokemon USA! This is the only reason why they couldn't work on the show (according to Mistress Puff and xdeadpan - and they've met Veronica and Rachael several times and have even had the chance to speak with them for 45 minutes about the VA switch and everything).


Also, did you guys see xdeadpan's post on her LJ?

Maybe looking at this again can help shed some light on the current situation....

Quote :

After the Q&A, we waited for Veronica and Rachael so we could talk! <3 Veronica said she needed to buy a bento box at one of the shops, so she offered for us to walk down with her!!!! GAAAAAAH. While we walked to the shops, we stopped halfway through as we started to get into a discussion about SOVA. Then.... THEN, we had the absolute privilege of talking to Rachael and Veronica for over 45 minutes about everything that happened--everything. We discussed everything from when they first realized they had been replaced to the TAJ/PUSA calls Puff and I endured to the message boards, which have gone out of hand in the last couple of months. FOR 45 MINUTES!!!!!!!!!

Veronica explained to us that they had indeed received the material for the Mastermind special and that she thought, "we were going to start on it at any given day." She confirmed ONCE AGAIN she was never, ever offered a chance to continue. When I explained to her everything Larry Juris said about the lawyer he offered, their contracts, etc., Veronica gave such a disgusted face and said she couldn't believe how many stories and lies were being made up about what happened. We told her that PUSA and TAJ's stories do not match, yet all the VAs' match. Veronica nodded and said, "It's because we all endured the same exact thing." Puff told her about PUSA's excuse of "characters growing up" and once again Veronica's facial expression showed complete disbelief. Rachael, who had previously showed compassion to Puff and I for the TAJ/Larry situation, again expressed what she thought of the situation. She told us that all the years they worked with him (and she especially, who worked with TAJ for Utena AND Pokemon), everything was fine and they had no problems at all.

Puff and I then went through explaining how the new English dub isn't just about the voice acting anymore and that we thought the dialogue and quality was cheap and rushed. Veronica said, "When I've watched some of the newer episodes I find what the characters are saying to be very surprising and not true to form." I told her some of the out-of-character things Ash has been saying lately, and she was 100% shocked. When explaining a certain piece of dialogue, she looked at Rachael as if she was going scream and Rachael shook her head in disbelief, too. They both began repeating, "No! No! Ash would never say something like that! Never!" We smiled sadly and continued to express how different the show was now and how much better off we are watching the Japanese version.

Puff reexplained what Pokemon.com's "statement" was about the VAs under "contractual obligations," and Rachael said, "The way they wrote that did nothing but turn the problem back on us, and that wasn't fair. It had nothing to do with contracts." Veronica sighed and said, "I got an email a while ago where someone asked if because two years was coming up if we could voice the characters again. But, the thing is, in the end, this really had nothing to do with contracts. We were never approached to continue by Pokemon USA." We nodded and said that a lot of people were wanting to email her to ask if they should give up, and Veronica said, "I don't think it's right for me to tell them to give up. Like I wrote on the picture, you guys have gone above and beyond, but it's Pokemon USA who isn't listening." We told her about the PR director, Amy Wexler, and Veronica restated they had received the Mastermind special under the impression they were going to dub it and said, "But I feel that Pokemon USA was planning this for a very long time, months ahead before action took place." I told her that on Bill Roger's LJ he had written they dubbed the first Battle Frontier episode before the Mastermind Special, and they had sent the first episode to PUSA as a trial, which Rachael and Veronica explained furthers the proof PUSA was planning this for a VERY long time.

This proves once again that "contracts" weren't an issue for the original cast.

However, whatever this loophole is, it's confusing the heck out of me....

What a bunch of bullshit indeed, this whole loophole business is. (pardon my French) By the way, who is it at DuArt that I should ask for to talk to?

Ah, you should ask for Tom Wayland. He's the voice director! ^_^

(also, if you can - you might wanna record your call, like Lapras did with Lawrence Neves).

Unfortunately I don't know and probably can't record phone calls (use my camera with audio maybe?) Anyways, I'll have to ask my parents to make a long distance call and I have to find out the number.

Yeah, that might work for the recording!

And also, I'm glad that you're calling Tom Wayland. Somehow or another, we're gonna get to the bottom of this! ^^

I wish you good luck with your call. I just hope that you will receive good news for a change (I hate receiving bad news).

xNarutoUzumaki9x wrote:

By the way, who is it at DuArt that I should ask for to talk to?

Tom Wayland. Not Tim Werenko (unless told by Tom or someone else that Tim's in charge of this).

EDIT: Whoops. Lisa already told you that. I guess my internet is really slow today.

Guys, remember the whole can of worms we opened last time with the phone call stuff... we don't need anymore harassment claims on our hands.